for the love of god
Is this the question and answer session of the Miss America pageant or a vice presidential debate????
I have never heard more generic verbiage, repetitious use of word, phrase and cliche, or oral diarrhea in general. I can't believe I actually heard a potential veep utter the phrase "shout out" tonight. And is she actually WINKING at the camera??? I want to kill myself.
Speaking of killing myself, please, if there is a God, do not let me have to sit through another four years of the word "nuc-u-lar."
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yeah
and the wink (shudder)
It was just one of many blunders. (I lost count of how many times that word was abused)
Look.
This is serious.
My head nearly exploded.
My blood pressure is through the roof.
I have children to raise, goddammit!
I really did.
I can't stand listening to all of that verbiage. It hurts my head. And the verbiage mixed with the folksiness and the flat A? MAKE IT STOP.
Please don't kill yourself. I need you in my life.
While I agree that Sarah Palin is annoying, I think many people are annoyed (to say the least) with her policies and/or inexperience, so they're not as willing to overlook some of her less appealing personality traits. The folksiness, the winking, the slang, the dialect of a particular cultural pocket of the United States, these behaviors are nothing new to politics. If you agree with a politician's stance on the issues, these behaviors might even be referred to as "charismatic." Take, for example, this video of another candidate exhibiting all of the aforementioned behaviors, with very special "shout out" at 1:10.
I don't mean to be a troll, I'm just trying to offer a different perspective. I think we can all agree that the "shout out" should have been ceremoniously retired with MTV's "TRL" when it went off the air a few weeks ago.
Before the debate even occurred, the outcome was known. Drudge Report would claim that Palin prevailed, and the Huffington Post would say that Biden came out on top. Off all the decided voters, there are some who would say that Palin gave an elementary school response to a question regarding the role of the VP, and others who would say that Biden gave a very similar elementary school response, with an added incorrect reference to the Constitution. Debates aren’t for decided voters.
But I don’t take issue with people’s personal political preferences, nor their personal preferences for what their ideal candidate consists of—that’s the beauty of democracy. My concern is that many people (particularly women) who oppose Palin’s candidacy, for whatever reason, don’t simply dislike her, they hate her with all of their being. That’s the ugly part of democracy, and the reason behind my original comment.
The thing I am saddest about when it comes to the public's response to Palin, is that some of our nation’s most brilliant women have "dumbed themselves down" to express their hatred for her. Personally, I’ve heard some of the most intelligent women I know refer to her as “fill-in-the-blank Barbie,” perpetuate false Internet rumors about her, and criticize her as a mother, up to and including references to her Down's baby as an “it” and a “political prop.” It just surprises me coming from women who would normally not stand for this kind of thing under any other circumstance.
Let’s be honest here. If Sarah Palin was a Democrat, she’d at least be celebrated as only the second woman to be on a major-party national ticket, the first who would take office as the mother of five children, an example of how a woman can balance a successful career with raising a brood of kids, a champion of families with special needs children, the wife of a union guy (who breaks gender stereotypes by staying home to help raise the kids so his wife can pursue her career goals), a driven woman who came up through the ranks by starting with the PTA, a woman who is not afraid to stand up to men, etc. If Sarah Palin was a Democrat, we’d all be ordered to celebrate her in the name of diversity and equality.
I really doubt that most liberal women dislike her so much because she appeals to soccer moms. That’s a good reason to find her to be annoying and unqualified, but not a good reason to hate her. If we’re being honest again, liberal women hate Sarah Palin because she’s pro-life, and feminism has become a one-issue movement. If you are fully capable of separating church from state, yet can still respectfully argue social, scientific, and bioethical reasons why you do not support abortion; if you believe that abortion is a multi-million dollar industry that commits violent acts against women, their bodies, and their psyches (whether or not it was their choice); if you can clearly see the link between the reason why women do not receive equal pay for equal work, and the myth and motive behind abortion—that a woman must make a choice between raising a child, or having a fulfilling life and successful career, but doing both is impossible; if you believe that abortion pits the rights of women against the rights of innocent children, and you feel it to be your womanly duty to defend those who cannot defend themselves; well, there is no place for you in the American feminist movement. I know this personally, and this is evidenced by the fact that NOW has endorsed the Obama/Biden ticket. I’ll admit that such an endorsement has more complex implications behind it, but, at face value, the National Organization for Women is endorsing an all-male ticket. Can you imagine the NAACP endorsing McCain/Palin in this election? (I chuckled just typing that.)
I want to clarify that I’m not suggesting that women should vote for Palin, or even like her, simply because she’s a woman. I completely respect that women disagree with her stance on the issues, her inexperience, even her mannerisms and sub-par speaking style. I’m not even sure I really like Sarah Palin myself. But I am disgusted at the ways in which women have expressed their sheer hatred of her, and how contempt for Republicans is the only socially acceptable prejudice remaining among many educated people today.
This is really one hell of a brilliant comment, particularly the last two sentences which sums it all up quite nicely. No, I don't think Sarah Palin is qualifed to be VP. However, there is something else going on here. And it's not just Democrats who do it. Case in point- look at how Hillary was trashed. She was a more experienced, qualified candidate. And what did they say about her? That she was unfeminine, and a "c*nt." That last term was actually used by women, I heard them.
That's one point. I would love to discuss/debate with you on your stance on abortion. But, you know that's really another issue. You were actually discussing two separate things, though I'm not sure you saw them as two.
Thanks for this, You made me think .And thanks, PP, for hosting it.
So what your saying is that the dislike of Palin stems from her anti-abortion stance? I think it's more to do to the fact that she was pulled out of hat to prove a point. Her selection was impulsive (as is the candidate himself) and I think part of the 'hatred' you describe towards her is not hatred at all, but embarrassment. She does not represent the average American woman in any way. I don't know if you think she represents you because you and she have a shared opinion on abortion, but whether you do think that or not, I suspect she doesn't represent you, either. The same way that Obama handed us all Joe Biden to appease those who really wanted someone with a penis, but a white one, is the way I feel about McCain's choice of Palin. She reflects many of his stands and she has a vagina. What are her other qualifications?
I think the 'hatred' you are hearing for Palin and what I pointed out about Clinton is not 'hatred' of the candidates themselves, but 'fury' Fury expressed by American women who are muti-talented, multi-faceted, have endless creative abilities, deep passions, drives and compassions, and we are being 'represented' by women like Clinton and Palin.
The average middle-class American woman is nothing at all like either of these women. The average middle class American woman does do it all- it's not impossible. It's physically draining, emotionally-exhausting, but it is not impossible.The average American woman does not spend her afternoon on hunts and her mornings governing a state. Nor does she spend it campaiging and then going home to a near palace with a bunch of servants to help her organise her day and her activities.
No, she spends her mornings rushing her chidlren through breakfast as lovingly as she can whie keeping one eye on the cockand anothe rout for the school bus, while trying to remember if one child took her medicine and the other remembered to put his science project in his school bag. Then she goes out to work, where she does her job despite sex discrimination. She doesn't tell people what to do, she is told what to do, and she swallows her rancor because she needs the money and her children need the medical coverage, if medical coverage is provided. She has no one to clean for her, cook for her, there is no secretary to pay her bills, or organise her social calender.She does all of that herself, impossible or not.Not necessaruly because she wants to, but because she has to. Then she goes out and pulls weeds in her garden. If she's lucky, she has a loving partner to help share some of the burden of this. But many don't. And many fret over what their children are doing while they are out at their second jobs, in the evenings, after their children have been fed, washed and sent off to bed and then left with a grandmother or a sitter looking after them. This is the average American woman.
It's my belief that both Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton insult her worth and her intelligence. The average American woman might not know how to pronounce the new head of Russia's name, but you know, she's not running for president. If she were, you bet she'd know it, just like she knows the myriad of other things she needs to know in order to balance out this precarious life that living in the United States as it stands now with limited child care , limited health plans, limited options for working mothers and stay-at-home mothers has presented to her.
Most of those women slog through, with little thanks and much guilt. Some don't do as well. Some resent all this and take it out on their children. And thats' why abortion should be dealt with on a case-by case basis, and not with one sweeping law for it or against it written by the Palins and the Clintons who don't really know what's it like to be "the a verage American woman" they so desperately want us to believe they are.
We talk about unborn children's rights. I am concerned with that as are all women with decency and compassion, but I am more concerned with born children's rights. What happens to that norn child when their mother 'snaps' under all this pressure to work or not to work, to have children or not, to survive or not, to exist as a being of some worth herself, or not? What happens to those born children when their mother gets cancer and the medical insurance doesn't pay for it, draining the family financesand depriving them of a mother besides?
In my opinion, it's the born children who suffer most in this country.
I respect your intelligence. But I have to say, with all that respect, that you are just as guilty of making womens' issues black or white as the Republicans and the Democrats are. You are just as guilty of the dislike you accuse other women of and I hear just as much anger in your replies. You might want to ask yourself why you feel that anger and why it's directed at other women.
Now I do agree and I have read and seen viciousness directed at both female candidates. Most often, it doesn't come from the average American woman, but from the media, the fringe groups on either side, such as the idiotic "Code Pink' who ar enothing more than an advert fro Prozac and the very extreme religious right who are nothing more than a brilliant example of what happens to people when they are raised to be fearful, xenophobic and sexually repressed. The most nastiness however, has come from the distorted media and other candidates'
The women on this blog were just letting off some steam. I think it's time we all revisited what it means to be a 'feminist,' in the true, grassroots definition of the word. I've met some and believe it or not, some are male. Respect for our fellow human beings, an attempt understand and not lable those who are different form us, who think differently and have different needs. A belife that every human being has the right to pursue happiness and not just those who agree with us. Most importantly respect. Doe sSarah Plain respect the American woman? Does Hillary Clinton? Do they truly care about our everyday lives, our striggles with issues. like daycare and abortion, domestic violence, education? Or do they just see us a roadblock to their own ambitions thatthey have to overcome, no matter what it takes, no matter what they have to do or say, what lie they have to tell us to get there?
Is the American woman angry about that? You bet. But, let's be angry together. Let's solve it together. You know, I run a non-partisan online magazine and one of the biggest accomplishments of it, of which I'm very proud is that we have writers on it who are everything from conservative Christian to liberal athiest. In fact, one of those female writers is more conservative than my own grandmother.(No offense, Miranda) She's voting McCain, I'm voting Obama. I still love and respect her and I know she still loves and respects me.we donlt understand each other views all the time, but I tell you one thing we do both do. We think about the other's perspective. Adn I lve learned from her as she's learned from me. That's another aspect of true feminism.
Thaks for listening and Prairie Plains sorry I hijacked your blog.
I think this has been one of the most intelligent debates I've seen about the current political campaign, specifically about Palin's right to run for VP or not. Actually I wish our ACTUAL PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES were this intelligent and respectful. Pipe dreams obviously, as proven by the general public's increasing disgust with both parties candidates and campaigns.
You know what... I LIKE SARAH PALIN. I really do. I cannot stand Hillary Clinton, but I respect what she has done with her career.
But this isn't about liking someone, this isn't about whether they annoy you or that their voice and mannerisms are akin to nails on a chalboard... this is about who you TRUST to run your country.
I've been formulating my thoughts for weeks and plan to blog about it later today... but I agree with everyone here... Woman are getting angry for the wrong reasons during this election. I wish we could pool that anger into something decisive and coherent to change our laws.
Frankly, it's not even about the presidency anymore... we need to be focused on our law makers... the folks we are voting into the Senate and the House that represent our states. They are the ones that are effecting us on a daily basis, and we aren't giving them a QUARTER of the heat we are giving our presidential candidates.
It's no news that I don't support Obama. But I promise you, if he gets elected, I will support him as our president and make sure that I am voting for representatives that can help him get things done in Washington. My involvement in our election process and being a informed citizen won't stop after November.
Patricia, you are right... I don't agree with or always understand your POV... but I love you dearly and appreciate and respect your thoughts and friendship. xoxo
Frankly, it's not even about the presidency anymore... we need to be focused on our law makers... the folks we are voting into the Senate and the House that represent our states. They are the ones that are effecting us on a daily basis, and we aren't giving them a QUARTER of the heat we are giving our presidential candidates
Amen, M. (Love you, too)
Now, I should say I did not feel that at all with Hillary Clinton, and not just because I'm a liberal. She was polished and well-prepared to take on any candidate at the national level. I respected her views, and her presentation of them. I thought she handled the criticisms of her extraordinarily well. I also didn't really feel that she propped herself up on the middle class in the same way that Palin does. Hillary came to us as voters and essentially said she understood us middle class Americans, as evidenced by her voting record on issues she thought mattered to us. She did not blatantly pander the way Palin does by frequently shouting in every possible way I AM MIDDLE CLASS JUST LIKE YOU--vote for my ticket! without actually providing me evidence of a voting record that shows she cares about my issues. The cliche Joe six-pack and hockey mom comments bother the most because I feel it's the basest way to appeal to voters. Saying that you are like me too by using sound bytes and cliches tells me nothing about how you'll vote to protect my rights and values. It's insulting that somebody thinks I'm that easily swayed.
Abortion is an aside for me in the conversation about the candidates, albeit a touchy one. You addressed important points that really demonstrate why I opt to be pro-choice for women. A lot of the arguments for pro-life to me sound a whole lot more like pro-pregnancy. I very rarely hear an argument that involves anything more than the right of the child to be born. But what about the right to a loving home, food and shelter, a good education, and health care? I care a great deal more about how those things will be provided to the children that already exist. Many pro-lifers I read and listen to in fact fight those very things once the child is born--the social programs that protect vulnerable children in disadvantaged families. I'm not putting words in your mouth here by any means, but your comments on being pro-child really touched the heart of my views on choice.
I know your discussion was with Thinking Monkey, but I thought I'd weigh in, because she happens to also be my best friend. Much like you and Miranda echo with one another, we happen to share very different views in political philosophy, but we always welcome debate and dialog with one another. It makes life more interesting to have someone you respect and admire deeply challenge you in your beliefs on a regular basis.
Oh, good, I'm glad you feel that way. And "thinking Money' really made me think, so I can see why you vaue her as a friend.
(...But am I the only one who noticed that I wrote the average American woman "keeps one eye on the cock" when I meant to say"one eye on the clock?" Is that a Freudian slip, or what?
I really better go take a nap ; p